Reviews For Logically Speaking
You must login (register) to review.
Reviewer: cai20160116 Anonymous [Report This]
Date: 15 Jan 2016 19:00 Title: Post 5

football shirts
canada goose jackets
ugg outlet
ralph lauren polo
tiffany and co
nike outlet store
mcm outlet
kobe bryant shoes
ugg boots
oakley sunglasses
michael kors clearance
chanel handbags
polo ralph lauren
nike roshe
timberland boots
ray ban sunglasses
kate spade handbags
ghd hair straighteners
north face jackets
louis vuitton handbags
asics
longchamp handbags
fitflops sale clearance
louis vuitton handbags
michael kors outlet
oakley sunglasses
ray ban sunglasses
true religion jeans
rolex watches
coach outlet
rolex outlet
true religion jeans
louis vuitton bags
ralph lauren polo shirts
ralph lauren shirts
tiffany outlet
cheap replica watches
ugg outlet
tory burch outlet
kate spade uk
nba jerseys
michael kors handbags
coach outlet
replica handbags
michael kors online
michael kors outlet
true religion jeans
coach outlet
burberry outlet
cheap uggs
canada goose outlet
calvin klein underwear
prada handbags
michael kors factory outlet
mulberry outlet
michael kors bags
coach handbags
ugg australia
ugg boots
designer handbags
hermes bags
rolex watches
montblanc pens
ralph lauren uk
nike outlet
mulberry handbags
ray ban sunglasses
kate spade handbags
true religion outlet
beats headphones
michael kors outlet
nike air force 1
nike huarache
michael kors handbags clearance
polo ralph lauren
beats by dre
burberry outlet
tiffany jewellery
chanel handbags
ferragamo shoes
cheap nfl jerseys
ugg boots
true religion jeans
oakley sunglasses wholesale
michael kors handbags
michael kors outlet
michael kors uk
ray ban sunglasses
polo ralph lauren
mulberry handbags
tiffany jewellery
babyliss flat iron
snow boots
tiffany and co jewelry
toms shoes
cheap nhl jerseys
mbt shoes
burberry outlet store
prada outlet
tiffany and co
michael kors sale
jordan shoes
adidas outlet store
ralph lauren
toms shoes
tiffany jewelry
oakley sunglasses
hollister clothing
louis vuitton outlet
swarovski crystal
nike air max
michael kors outlet
cheap uggs
tory burch outlet
christian louboutin uk
polo ralph lauren
coach outlet
oakley outlet
nike outlet
michael kors outlet
longchamp handbags
ugg boots
swarovski crystal
christian louboutin
uggs clearance
true religion outlet
mulberry handbags
christian louboutin online
ray ban sunglasses
uggs outlet
celine outlet
swarovski crystal
tiffany outlet
louis vuitton outlet
hermes birkin
coach outlet
tory burch outlet
ugg uk
michael kors outlet online
pandora jewelry
true religion outlet
michael kors outlet
soccer jerseys
juicy couture outlet
nike roshe run
fitflops shoes
coach outlet canada
ugg boots
longchamp outlet
uggs on sale
oakley sunglasses
longchamp outlet
louis vuitton outlet
louis vuitton handbags
ferragamo shoes
lululemon outlet
kobe shoes
nike outlet online
oakley sunglasses
michael kors outlet
ralph lauren polo
toms outlet
louis vuitton outlet
ray ban sunglasses
chanel outlet
cheap mlb jerseys
swarovski jewelry
soccer jerseys
mulberry bags
michael kors handbags
ugg outlet
michael kors outlet
tory burch outlet
michael kors outlet
iphone cases
true religion jeans
michael kors wallet
moncler coats
nike huarache
fitflops shoes
coach outlet online
thomas sabo uk
mulberry sale
hollister uk
true religion sale
the north face jackets
adidas wings
coach outlet online
cheap ugg boots
oakley sunglasses wholesale
basketball shoes
replica watches
ferragamo shoes
true religion jeans
nfl jerseys wholesale
air max 1
oakley
cheap michael kors handbags
coach outlet store
burberry outlet
air jordan shoes
ralph lauren outlet
louis vuitton handbags
herve leger outlet
michael kors wholesale
ralph lauren uk
louis vuitton
ugg boots
links of london
ferragamo outlet
coach outlet
ray ban sunglasses
cheap mlb jerseys
fitflops outlet
rolex watches for sale
rolex watches
mulberry outlet
cheap jordans
michael kors factory outlet
coach outlet online
michael kors factory outlet
ugg outlet
michael kors outlet store
michael kors outlet
swarovski crystal
oakley sunglasses
ray ban sunglasses
rolex watches
ray ban
prada shoes
ugg boots
lebron james shoes
futbol baratas
michael kors handbags
michael kors outlet
ugg boots
lacoste polo shirts
coach outlet
polo ralph lauren
ferragamo shoes
pandora jewelry
cheap nfl jerseys
omega watches
fitflops sale
true religion jeans
ralph lauren polo
tory burch shoes
ferragamo outlet
ralph lauren outlet
fitflops sale clearance
hermes outlet
jordan shoes
louis vuitton handbags
cheap snapbacks
oakley sunglasses
oakley sunglasses
cheap jordans
ugg outlet
beats by dr dre
fitflop clearance
cheap nba jerseys
ray-ban sunglasses
replica watches
oakley sunglasses
cheap oakley sunglasses
fitflops sale
ugg boots
ugg sale
longchamp handbags
ralph lauren uk
lululemon outlet
beats by dr dre
lebron james shoes
air max 2015
tiffany jewelry
michael kors factory outlet
michael kors outlet clearance
oakley canada
true religion jeans
mulberry outlet
ugg outlet
discount michael kors handbags
ray ban sunglasses
lululemon outlet
swarovski outlet
tory burch outlet online
michael kors outlet store
hermes belt
true religion uk

Reviewer: Strider Signed [Report This]
Date: 29 May 2012 02:29 Title: Post 6

I was going to say the same thing about the Romulans! I would imagine that they serve as a warning to Vulcans about what could happen if they let themselves loosen their control. Thanks for this set of forums; it's fun!

Reviewer: Strider Signed [Report This]
Date: 29 May 2012 02:26 Title: Post 5

No arguments here...Vulcans do think their ways are superior, obviously, or they wouldn't adopt them as their ways. We ALL think our ways are superior, or we wouldn't choose them!

Reviewer: Strider Signed [Report This]
Date: 29 May 2012 02:23 Title: Post 4

I think the Vulcan guiding philosophical utilitarianism precludes them being egotistical. It's also probably why they joined the Federation eventually--to serve the greater good. And dare I even bring up Spock again (yes, I know he's hardly the only Vulcan, but he's my favorite one). For a Vulcan to stand at a human commanding officer's right shoulder, in a perpetual role of support, even servant-leadership, even though that Vulcan does think his ways and his intellect are superior, is a clear demonstration that he is not an egotist.

Reviewer: Strider Signed [Report This]
Date: 29 May 2012 02:18 Title: Post 3

I agree that Vulcans are proud, but pride is not the same as egotism. And it's not THAT surprising that Vulcans don't renounce practices that obviously don't always work...they have extremely tight social control in Vulcan culture, simply through race-identification and the giving or withholding of approval. And I think we could argue that Spock did reject those practices, even as he hid inside them, by choosing Star Fleet over the Vulcan Science Academy.

Reviewer: Strider Signed [Report This]
Date: 29 May 2012 02:14 Title: Post 2

Good arguments here, too. Obviously Vulcans are deeply emotional and strongly controlled about it...on the surface that seems healthy (and I agree that humans could use a bit of that kind of control). But I too often see it (especially in the case of Spock, perhaps not the best representative) resulting in not just the control but the suppression of those feelings. Good insights. Reading on.

Reviewer: Strider Signed [Report This]
Date: 29 May 2012 02:08 Title: Post 1

This is a good start...I am interested in this divided character that individual Vulcans as well as Vulcan culture display. Reading more!

Reviewer: Miranda Fave Signed [Report This]
Date: 23 Sep 2011 15:13 Title: Post 1

I really enjoyed this 'civil' little discourse. It was an interesting spin on the ole McCoy/Spock verbal sparring and given the general thrust of the early Vulcan/Human relationship as depicted in ENT. One can almost retcon McCoy's attitude to be a left over from that earlier time when their were simmering animosities between the Vulcans and the humans. Again, I liked the approach to it here. I know in my ENT era fanfic project I've got a pair who display such combative and argumentative tendancies and it makes for fun writing at times.

Of course it can always be tricky writing good Vulcan and of course to write the human counterpoint without either character seeming racist or a caricature. I think you have done well to present fairly motivated by the argument persons in this debate and we did get a few interesting tidbits to mull over.

I think Nerys raised a good point in review about not including the v’tosh kotur in the argument. It seems a little like an easy option on that "reader's" part to dismiss the validity of the v’tosh kotur as forming part of the argument. In truth, the v’tosh kotur seem to represent the ideal middle ground, embracing emotions and their logic and be a symbol of compromise and understanding for both parties. It's an argument or line of thought I'd love to see explored in a fanfic sometime. Thanks for the generating of thoughts and ideas with your story.

Reviewer: Miranda Fave Signed [Report This]
Date: 23 Sep 2011 15:01 Title: Post 6

HA! Universally civil - if only people were. A neat way to finish off the discourse with a third party interjection who calls both respondants on their lines of arguments and their failures to tackle certain issues for example the Romulans and the v’tosh kotur. This was a fun and insane exercise. Well done for following it all the way through. Thank you.

Reviewer: Miranda Fave Signed [Report This]
Date: 23 Sep 2011 14:57 Title: Post 5

M. Anonymous has a tricky job trying to continue a line of argument with L.O. Surak - if they use an emotional argument they display the lack of restraint a Vulcan can master and so perhaps invalidate their argument - or at least so in the eyes of L.O. Surak. But trying to outfox a Vulcan with a logical argument seems to be a rather fruitless endeavour. Especially as the Vulcans can be quick to reinterpret what exactly is 'logical' to fit their own argument after all.

Reviewer: Mistral Signed [Report This]
Date: 22 Jun 2010 12:54 Title: Post 6

This was a cool twist.

Author's Response: Thanks, and I'm very glad your enjoying the story, and the topic of argument. ;)

Reviewer: Mistral Signed [Report This]
Date: 22 Jun 2010 12:50 Title: Post 2

Surak, huh? An on-line name, perhaps? And a logical rebuttal...

Reviewer: Mistral Signed Liked [Report This]
Date: 22 Jun 2010 12:48 Title: Post 1

Interesting and insightful. Quite a sound argument you assembled there.

Reviewer: Nerys Ghemor Signed [Report This]
Date: 21 Jun 2010 19:14 Title: Post 6

"KEPT THE HUMANS IN LINE"????  Uh-oh, I have a feeling that's about to set M. Anonymous off BIG time.  Let's hope he can keep his emotions in check while he takes down that idea of "Green Man's Burden."  Because that's really what it smacks of--paternalism and racial superiority.  (I just KNOW my rebel Cardassians would feel compelled to point out just how ugly it sounds, and give them a sharp warning as to what they are verging on.)

I also think it was dumb to suggest the v'tosh ka'tur are not fair game--especially if the majority of them are as well adjusted as this poster suggests.  Their ability to live well as they is a fantastic counterexample to the Vulcan party line.

And I wonder, what race is this UniVereSallyCiviL?



Author's Response: you'll have to wait tosee what his identity may be. as for that line, i just had to throw it in there for M. Anonymous.

Reviewer: RobertScorpio Signed Liked [Report This]
Date: 21 Jun 2010 12:19 Title: Post 1

I am liking this. I read the novel version of TREK V and I find this subject matter ripe with possibilities!

Rob

Author's Response: Thanks! Glad you're enjoying it!

Reviewer: Nerys Ghemor Signed [Report This]
Date: 27 Feb 2010 17:24 Title: Post 5

M. Anonymous needs to watch himself...going up against a Vulcan, a human will be held to much higher standards, because his response is automatically assumed to be emotion and the Vulcan's response is automatically assumed to be logic.  A Vulcan will be forgiven a lapse; a human will not be.  (This is much like certain types of political debates here on Earth where one side is held to a different standard than the other, and an offense that would've forced one side to recant and apologize is received without batting an eye when dealt out by the other side.)  I almost think he would do better by trying to out-Vulcan the Vulcan, since he's in a written venue and has time to step back and review his responses before he posts.

I think what would really shift the debate, now that it's gotten this emotional on both sides (though of course LO Surak would never be called on it the way M. Anonymous could be) is for a HEALTHY, WELL-ADJUSTED v'tosh ka'tur Vulcan to step into the debate and explain exactly why he/she felt that the Vulcan way was flawed.  (Someone like United Trek's T'Ser...)



Author's Response: Yes, it is true that both people will be held to a different standard. but for L.O. Surak, as soon as he/she makes a misstep, and says something that can be taken as emotional, he/she would be called out about it without delay.

you think as i do! I actually WAS going to have someone step in. but you'll have to wait to see who it might be.

Reviewer: Miranda Fave Signed [Report This]
Date: 24 Feb 2010 13:27 Title: Post 4

Hee, hee. At this stage we see it is beginning to descend into a catfight between the two really. Have we ever seen the likes of this happen before ... roll eyes and say: 'oh no, never before'. Loved the idea and the notion behind this and the arguments you used for both sides.



Author's Response: Thanks for the reviews! I had always wondered why this was never addressed straightforward in Star Trek. They always seemed to get along so well on-screen, but that couldn't be right! How could two peoples so different, and who have nearly opposite philosphies get along so well? It didn't seem believable to me, and that's what I wanted to address. And when two people get into an argument about so deep a topic, its of course going to happen that their true colors will come out. Glad you're enjoying it! :)

Reviewer: Miranda Fave Signed [Report This]
Date: 24 Feb 2010 13:25 Title: Post 3

As I said in the previous rambling review, the waters muddy quickly when either side uses the other side's arsenal as it weapons to fling at their opponent. So here Anon sarcastically accuses Surak as being emotional and questions the validity of the answers given. Throwing Sybok into the equation is a hamfisted attempt to make an argument but still the poster seems to be making some deep charges that sting for cutting a certain degree close to the truth.

Reviewer: Miranda Fave Signed [Report This]
Date: 24 Feb 2010 13:21 Title: Post 2

A great response to the first open letter. Of course, one could argue that in responding, the Vulcan in question is in fact reacting emotionally. However, a Vulcan might dispute that point. They could say that they are responding as a matter of intellectual debate - maybe they enjoy winning arguments. I think the concept behind this is all very clever in itself. Alllowing the chance to debate the different sides and opinions on the issue of Vulcan nature/logic/way of life.


What really intrigues me about this little debate is that I have some complicated Vulcan characters myself who run afoul of their emotions because of other circumstances. And one of those characters has thrown the apparent elitist attitude of the Vulcans back in their face. So this is fascinating to see played out here. I've gradually heard more and more people dispute the validity of Vulcan claims and their option to control their emotions. All too often, it is to knock it and to protest that Vulcans were many of the charges M. Anon made. I like seeing the defence made here. It is blind indeed to let heated or biased emotions cloud argument for or against the issue. I guess the very nature of Vulcan lifestyle means it will forever draw down debate because it is either supported on a basis on intellect or decried on a basis of emotion. Surak here attempts to support it with logic and intellect here. However, a smart move in using the logic of Vulcan control to admit emotions play a part. This continues to be a fascinating read. Well done KobayashiMaru13.

Reviewer: Miranda Fave Signed [Report This]
Date: 24 Feb 2010 11:38 Title: Post 1

Ooh a fascinating little virtual debate you've got up and running with this instalment. I wonder how others will react to this 'posting'. A nice style to the writing that fits the meandering view of a person seeking to find a voice. They make many a good point too as they question the Vulcan ability to question Earth's bloody history and yet ignore the details of their own violent past. M. Anon hits home a few good scores although fails to offer too much concrete evidence in their own argument - but then people do tend to fail to notice that in their own self-justified views. Very interesting.

Reviewer: Nerys Ghemor Signed [Report This]
Date: 16 Feb 2010 22:35 Title: Post 3

This is a very, very interesting exchange to read--at once extremely uncomfortable because of the borderline racist assumptions that both of the writers on both sides of the debates are making...and also interesting because aside from ENT, we almost never saw the Vulcans really, REALLY put on the defensive.

(BTW, what about the other v'tosh ka'tur Vulcans besides Sybok?  There were some in ENT, and could there be others?)



Author's Response: Well, I personnally figured thst there must be those who rejected the Vulcan Way, just as there are those who reject their native religion of Christianity,Judaism, Islam, etc (not that the Vulcan Way is a religion, but it is nearly the same kind of deal, so basically the same applies). As for Sybok, well, he was the first to pop into my head, and I figured he'd be the most publically known.

I admit, at first it WAS borderline racist, but it always bothered me that Trek always seemed to steer away from such things. But humans are humans, and Vulcans sometimes act like humans, so there must have been some element of it there.

You must login (register) to review.